[Dshield] mail1.giac.net spamcop listed]

Kenneth Coney superc at visuallink.com
Tue Dec 16 17:31:04 GMT 2003

Total agreement (rant).  We need to put more of the responsibility on the 
IPs.  No doubt this attitude is unpopular with the IPs.  Still they sit 
there and control the traffic that goes through their servers.  To me, they 
are as responsible as a landlord allowing a tenant to run a crackhouse or a 
house of ill repute.  (Asset forfeiture with the servers being sold and 
spam victims receiving the money comes to mind as a possible.)  The 
penalties should be similar.  We also need to put some pressure on the 
legislators who love raising taxes, but who offer little constructive 
legislation in dealing with Spammers.  (VA excepted and their first 
criminal case will be followed with interest by many.)  Class A blocks work 
and do cut spam.  If there is a reason why I should allow a computer 
communication from Korea, China, or 100 other nations where I know no one 
and desire no communication with, I have yet to hear it.  Still class A 
blocks (like patches and firewalls) are only symptoms that there is a 
problem. and not an elimination of the problem.  Since the IP owners cited 
don't seem willing to control and police what happens on their networks 
themselves, then legislation with draconian penalties seems to be needed. 
Let a few $100,000+ setups be confiscated and sold, due to someone's 
ignoring of emails to abuse@ or ignoring mass Spam emails continually going 
out from a PC, and you will see a change in attitude.  Trust me, if a 
Spammer starts costing an IP owner money the Spammer will vanish, but as 
long as the IP owner is making money from the Spammer, then the Spam will 

Here's a question that could lead to control of Spam;
Should a State license (with serious penalties for end users and IPs that 
ignore the rule) be required for each machine that will send more than 150 
emails per month?
(Second and third licenses envisioned for users who send more than 500 per 
month, or 1000 per day, etc.  Make them pay more for each 500 emails, cut 
the Spam profit.)

Subject: Re: [Dshield] mail1.giac.net spamcop listed]
From: jayjwa <jayjwa at atr2.ath.cx>
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 13:14:07 -0500
To: General DShield Discussion List <list at dshield.org>


Then let's make that day come sooner- everyone that administers a mail
server, if you constantly receive spam from a domain- block it. I block
all of China, Korea, and "odd" top-level domains. No one in Liberia has any 
mailing anyone at my server. Then there's the "do-nothing" ISPs. I've
fought with Telnor, Tiscali, ntlworld.com, rr, netvigator, btinternet,
comcast, and a few others on a regular basis. One of the above was mailing
what turned out to be viruses to my host 5 times an hour- everyhour- for
several weeks. Of course they got permanently banned, but I still saw
them in the firewall logs, banging  away with reckless abondon. I mailed
their abuse desk several times (4+), included full headers, firewall logs,
MTA logs, and actual emails + attachments.
They said it was my fault, for not issuing a 550 instead of
dropping all traffic from them. I did do this- for the first few days.
After that I simply got tired of logs filled with their host name in it.
When these companies realize that they in effect can not contact to any
host at all, because of banning and blacklisting, and their customers
realize this, their clients will pull out, and the isp's will lose vast
amounts of money. That _will_ get there attention, and make them see that spam
hosting and ignoring other similar problems is to their disadvantage.
Follow the blocklists religiously (Sans, etc)- if these spam & virus
housers won't do something about the problem, they should be cut off from
the rest of the Internet.

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